A winter in Smolensk, a sixth coalition TL

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Wendell

Diego said:
Those seem to be very mild terms least the way they were phrased, with the exception of the last one that I also think is not really what Austria wanted. It doesn't ask for Napoleon to leave the Papal States, or any part of Italy, it does ask for the end of the French occupation of Germany, but not the dismantling of the puppet states, it doesn't askt for the return of Austrian lands.

About the last one I don't think that the Austrians were ever eager to have Galicia back, in 1815 they were even accepting to give more territory to have an independant Poland...


My opinion about what would happen next, just press play:





I don't think that Napoleon gained more than a day with these proposals, he didn't propose anything really meaningful. I think he should have tried to really woe the Austrians, instead of giving a proposal that will take them little time to reject... offer Austria their 1805 contiguous borders minus Galicia, the restoration of the Papal States, the withdrawal of French troops from Germany after the war, offer them to put a person that they like on the throne of Poland, offer them Silesia if they join on his side... Napoleon should offer things that he knows that Austria can't get from the coalition.
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You probably don't need to return all of the Papal States, just the areas south of San Marino.
 

TrickyApe

Parmenion said:
"Your Majesty" Metternich began "It's an honor to finally make your aquaintance." He didn't attempt to sound genuine. "The feeling is certainly mutual." Nor did Napoleon
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Metternich hasn't served as ambassador to France TTL? He and Napoleon should be well acquainted by now according to OTL.
 

Mister Mister

Diego said:
I don't think that Napoleon gained more than a day with these proposals, he didn't propose anything really meaningful. I think he should have tried to really tempt the Austrians, instead of giving a proposal that will take them little time to reject. He should offer Austria their 1805 contiguous borders minus Galicia, the restoration of the Papal States, the withdrawal of French troops from Germany after the war, offer them to put a person that they like on the throne of Poland, offer them Silesia if they join on his side... Napoleon should offer things that he knows that Austria can't get from the coalition.
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Agreed.
 

Diego

Wendell said:
You probably don't need to return all of the Papal States, just the areas south of San Marino.
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Or maybe just Lazzio, but I don't think it really matters because if we assume that Napoleon is negotiating in good faith the only offer that Austria would accept is half of Italy and half of Germany. What I mean by that is that in Italy Napoleon probably will need to let the kingdom of Italy and his departments near Rome receive whatever fate that Austria envision to them, though I think that he could keep Naples under Murat and also keep his direct controled territories in Northern Italy up to Parma. That would be half of Italy, now about half of Germany it could mean for example a condominium of Austria and France over Germany, like a German Confederation with Austria as president and France as an observer (more like an overseer), I also think that as long as the French troops leave Germany (east of the Rhine) and stop drafting Germans to the French Army I don't think that Austria would in this situation make it imperative the destruction of Napoleonic creations like Berg and Westphalia, and France would even be able to keep the former territories of the kingdom of Holland and the department of Lippe, but restorations and compensations would need to happen, for example Austria receiving its lands annexed by Bavaria, and the restoration of Hesse-Kassel, Oldenburg, Hamburg and Lubeck.

Now the elephant in the room is that Napoleon is very insecure and in OTL he couldn't make a fair deal even when his throne depended on that... the fact that he is insecure was the main cause of a vicious cycle that plagued him. That cycle started because Napoleon created a big army due to his lack of trust and confidence, because of the bigger army the budget went through the roof, and because of that he looted Europe, his looting made the other powers more hostile, that made him need a bigger army, and so on, the cycle of "troops > money > looting > hostility > troops" should end and it will end only if Napoleon is able to reduce his armed forces to a size that France could pay in peace time, maybe something like 250 to 300 thousand men including all field armies and garrisons.
 
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Part 40- Premature Development
  • Index

    • Parmenion

    Toulon, August 30th, 1813​




    Almost all of the 30,000 inhabitants of the French port city had turned out that balmy summer day. A section of the harbor had been cordened off by the government, much to the chagrin of the mayor, who'd been forced by posterity to attend the event. A new vessel bobbed in the water, tied to the wharf that had been reserved for it. The craft was somewhat cigar-shaped, composed of resin coated oak about 30 feet long, with a nervewrackingly narrow and short hull. There had been some whispers of a new ship being developed and tested on the Seine, but almost nobody had any idea what they were looking at.

    Nonetheless, the fanfare was a welcome respite from the mounting losses in Germany, or the collapse of the Spanish front. At the center of it all was David Bushnell, the man who'd conceived this new creation. The elderly American smiled as he gazed down at the strange vessel, before turning to face the crowd. "Attention! Attention everyone!" He called out "Today, all of you shall bear witness to the start of a new age of naval power! Britannia may rule the waves-" The crowd jeered, soured by the mere allusion of the British "But they have no sovereignty under them!" The people quieted, confused

    "Oh! Yes indeed!" Bushnell gestured to a woman standing nearby "Madame Blanchard!" The crowds hushed tones got louder, many recognizing the name "Would you care to do the honor?" The aeronaut smiled as she took from Bushnell the ceremonial champagne. Before the roars of the people, she held up the bottle "I name this ship... Tortue!" She announced before smashing the bottle on the submarines hull.

    The boat had been the result of more than two months of round the clock thinking, testing, postulating and building. Fulton's own design had been an invaluable benchmark to begin, and they'd managed to incorporate several of its features into the tortue, such as the keel ballast tank. Blanchard's Balloon experience had been key in designing the ballast pumps, which had to be accurate and precise. While the ship possessed a small hook at its rear, it woulen't be towing any mines today.

    A young man in a naval officer's uniform stepped up to Bushnell "Will you be taking command, sir?" Napoleon had been kind enough to give Bushnell the rank of Lieutenant commander, though he had no desire to start a naval career "That's alright Lieutenant, the honor's all yours." Lt Favreau nodded with a grin, as he and Madame Blanchard followed the four "rowers" into the compact pressure hull. The crowd lurched over the docks to watch the vessel, as it slowly began to slip beneath the sea.

    Suddenly, a rush of bubbles and foam erupted from the underside of the craft, and its slow rate of decent turned into an imprompt dive. The crowd gasped as the sputtering vessel vanished under the sea, and mom later, a final rush of air towards the surface indicated a rough meeting with the bottom. Seconds later Favreau emerged, sputtering, dragging an equally horrifed Blanchard up to the surface. The two of them were the only ones to come up. Helped by some citizens from the water, the duo sat by the wharf as the stunned crowd slowly dispersed.

    Mr. Bushnell sheepishly approached them "I see my design has... has tragic results, I apologize." Madame Blanchard simply turned and began the walk to her hotel, sopping wet and traumatized. The lieutenant stayed, as the inventor looked down at where his creation, now lay as a graveyard "We'll need to retrieve the bodies, and the craft..." "I'll see to that sir, once I'm in a dry uniform that is." Bushnell nodded, excusing the officer, as he pondered his errors...
     
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    • Parmenion

    Diego said:
    snip
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    Napoleon isn't quite negotiating in good faith. He has good advisors, and he knows what Austria wants in order to keep out of the war, he also knows he's absolutely unwilling to accept those terms. Therefore, his plan is to buy time, specifically hoping the Austrians won't want to start a campaign going into winter. That gives him Months to continue mobilizing and training his army.
     
    Part 41- Gearing Up
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    • Parmenion

    Even as peace negotiations continued at Leipzig, both France and the Coalition were frantically working to raise more troops. As part of the terms of the ceasefire, the various sieges in Prussia and Poland were not halted. While the Prussians had only been able to field a single Corps at Leipzig, concription and increased Russian support allowed them to free up more men. Additionally, the Prussians were also assisted by the Landwehr. Roughly equivalent to the French National Guard, the Landwehr augmented the Prussian army in a similar way, with each Brigade having one regiment of them. This meant that by September the Prussians had raised von Bülow's II Corps, and Kleist's III Corps, which were folded into the Coalition ranks.

    The Russians received an additional corps as well, which was placed under Bernadotte's command. Another 50,000 Russian soldiers reinforced the worn down Army of Poland. Another 10,000 Russians were dispatched to garrison Warsaw and other Polish cities, as tensions slowly built between the Poles and their Russian occupiers. Among these new troops were more irregular cavalry from the east, such as the Bashkir and Kalmyk horse archers, who would soon join the Cossacks under the Russian banner.

    The Austrian army had been preparing for war since Spring, and now fielded two seperate armies. The first was the five corped, 120,000 men strong Army of Bohemia, which had been promised Russian Support. This army was led by Archduke Charles, the younger brother of Emperor Francis. Charles was two years younger than Napoleon, but had almost as much experience as the Emperor. They'd briefly clashed in 1797, but their more famous encounter had been at the battle of Aspern in 1809, where Charles had defeated and nearly destroyed Napoleon's army. Napoleon avenged that defeat at Wagram weeks later, but the war ended up as his costliest victory to date. A second, smaller army on the Italian border, was led by Prince Schwarzenberg. Ironically, Schwarzenberg had been fighting for Napoleon less than a year prior, holding his southern flank in Russia before returning to Austria without Napoleon's permission.

    Bernadotte, in addition to his new Russian Corps, was given a Corps of Prussian cavalry, and reinforcements from Sweden, though these were quite raw. Prussia also became the largest avenue through which massive British aid arrived. The support included nearly 10 million pounds in cash, hundreds of cannon, several million rounds of ammunition, and myriad other army supplies like boots and brandy. The Prussians also became the hosts of a British rocket company, led by Captain Bogue. Bernadotte's new Army of the North, meant Napoleon would be facing four large armies, if and when the armistice lapsed.

    Napoleon's empire remained capable of turning out yet more forces as well. The German states, despite some tension developing, continued to faithfully contribute soldiers. Nearly 40,000 Germans reinforced him during the ceasefire, mostly shoring up his depleted corps. About 25,000 Italians arrived for a similar assignment, dispersed as individual regiments throughout the army. The Grande Armèe also received a second Corps of the Young Guard under Marshal Victor, and XVI Corps under General Vandamme. His cavalry wing, while still a pale shadow of its former glory, was reinforced by the fully formed II Cavalry Corps under General Sułkowski III Cav Corps led by August Caulaincourt, and IV Cav Corps under General Arrighi. In all, Napoleon had around 375,000 men in Germany, facing nearly 600,000 troops of the coalition.

    With peace talks continuing, one thing was clear. If diplomacy failed, the bloodiest chapter in European history lay ahead...
     
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  • Index
    • Part 42- Change in Strategy.
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    • Parmenion

    Markkleeberg Manor, September 12th, 1813​




    "As I told you, Marshal Berthier, our decision on this matter is final." Tsar Alexander let his frustration show. The quaint manor house just South of Leipzig, had become the de facto military HQ of the coalition, with all the respective army leaders gathered there. Archduke Charles had arrived as well, officially as another Austrian representative, but in reality he was there to establish Austria's position in the Coalition military structure, and to discuss their strategy for the expected campaign to come. Marshal Berthier had often served as one of Napoleon's representatives himself, and had come to Markkleeberg with demand after absurd demand, today was no different. "As the United Kingdom isn't party to this ceasefire, it should be quite obvious why their consultation on any matters pertaining to it isn't required. believe the Austrian Foreign Minister said as much yesterday."

    "He did." Berthier nodded "And His Majesty rejected said explanation. His opinion hasn't-" The Tsar rose to his feet "When I want your Emperor's opinion, I'll require no assistance in inquiring for it." Alexander put himself in Berthier's face "Make this painfully obvious to your master, he can either accept our terms as they've been laid out, without a single alteration, or there will be a war." Alexander then sat back down, making a point not to look at the Marshal. "Very well then, if you'll excuse me, your Majesty, your Royal Highness..." Berthier bowed before stepping out.

    "There will be war." The Archduke said, breaking the silence "I've talked with Metternich, Bonaparte isn't backing down, especially on Germany." "Then it's best we assume war's resumption is imminent, and to plan accordingly." Blucher said, his expression uncharacteristically calm "Agreed, I do think we're in a decent position though, once Austria enters the field, he'll be hard pressed to find anywhere he isn't outnumbered." The Tsar nodded "Is the Army of Bohemia ready now?" "Very much so Your Majesty, and full of veterans too, I suppose we should be thank Napoleon for helping us with that." Alexander chuckled "Indeed, indeed. Uh, the offer of Russian support still stands if-" "Ah, yes." Charles shook his head "I meant to mention, My Emperor accepts most graciously, so long as you'll vouch for their conduct when on Austrian soil." "My men are under orders to act no differently in Vienna than St.Petersburg, I swear on the honor of my house that any who defy that order shall suffer for it" The Archduke smiled "I won't doubt your word for an instint."

    "Maybe we should look to strategy next." Bernadotte interjected "Agreed." Said Barclay "I think he's got eyes on Berlin. He kept marching North until the literal minute the ceasefire began, not to mention reinforcing Hamburg." Archduke Charles nodded "That wouldn't be atypical of him, in fact it's similar to what he did at Austerlitz. He's hoping Oudinot will hold off Blucher long enough for him to swing North towards Berlin, crush the Army of Silesia between those two forces." "And knock out Prussia." Blucher finished for him "Not while I can still hold a sword!"

    "Quite right, that being so, here's what I suggest: General Blucher will advance on Hamburg." He faced the Prussian "Pay absolutely no mind to what the Corsican does, pretend he doesn't exist." Blucher nodded, the realization showing on his face "He'll assume I'm charging into Hamburg like an overambitious fool, and believing his plan is going flawlessly, he'll pursue." Now Barclay jumped in "Then the other three armies converge on him as at Leipzig, and we deal a decisive blow of our own." Blucher sighed "Goddamn it, that means I'll have to siege Hamburg. I'm 70, I don't have time for this!" Most of the room laughed, forgetting the gravity of their decisions for a moment.

    "We should discuss command structure as well." Tsar Alexander commented, resulting in a sigh from the Archduke "I believe it's prudent if I remain in command of all Coalition forces in Europe." Charles rubbed his temples, realizing he'd need to be sensitive "Your Majesty, I have no doubt of your ability to do so, but considering my brother will doubtless be incensed, may I propose a compromise. If you allow me to take overall command over the four armies, you could still be required to permit any of my orders, as well as giving me alternative directives as you see fit." The Tsar considered it, then nodded "That should suffice, very well." Charles nodded

    "I think I'll take the Army of Bohemia towards Dresden, give Bonaparte one more headache." Barclay looked concerned "Saint Cyr is quite dug in, are you quite certain you can take Dresden in short order." Charles nodded again "The city's walls were partially dismantled some years prior, not to mention Herr Metternich has been in contact with the Saxon king, seems he just may be willing to hold open the gate so to speak." At that Alexander smiled and stood, the rest of the men following his lead "Well then gentlemen, I'm content to let the ceasefire expire on the 25th, if nobody objects?" Nobody spoke "Let's pray this is over by Christmas." Nobody said it, but many had doubts about that...

    Author's note: So I'm gonna shake things up a little here, partly because I'm curious what the people reading this want, partly because everyone likes a change of pace. What do YOU want me to write about in this TL? Any topic, any figure I'm slouching on? Any theaters you want me to go into more detail? If I can make it fit into the story, I will.
     
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    • McAuslan_in_the_Rough

    Great work as always, with one suggestion. Given just how Alexander's father found his way into his grave, I am not sure his son would ever swear on it. Maybe a simple "Upon my honour" instead?
     

    generalurist

    British-coalition dispute, did something like that form OTL?
    If Napoleon couldn't beat the coalition mildly outnumbered in 1813, he is not gonna beat them very outnumbered in 1814. I do hope Nappy doesn't take the bait hook line and sinker though.
     

    Parmenion

    generalurist said:
    British-coalition dispute, did something like that form OTL?
    If Napoleon couldn't beat the coalition mildly outnumbered in 1813, he is not gonna beat them very outnumbered in 1814. I do hope Nappy doesn't take the bait hook line and sinker though.
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    Not a full dispute, it's more that they had differing best case scenarios for eachother, but Metternich and Castlereigh weren't stupid, and kept things stable
     

    McAuslan_in_the_Rough

    Mister Mister said:
    What terms did the Coalition actually offer to the Napoleon?
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    The Austrian demands were: "...restored access to the sea, the end of the French occupation of Germany, and the liberation of Galicia from the Poles, are all to be unconditional. If my French counterpart agrees to cede these territories, or perhaps even a great part of them."

    I could not find the Russian and Prussian demands right away, but I think they would be satisfied with that, as long the liberation of Galicia from the Poles would be accompanied by the liberation of Poland from the Poles. The British would probably add the liberation of the Netherlands and the liberation of various choice colonial bits.
     
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