Thank you. Glad you like it.
Yeah she was really cool.
I put a lot of work into this chapter so Iam glad you like it.
The Six Queens of Francis the First
- Thread starter Prince of Permsia
- Start date
Charlotte married the man who kept her brother in captivity, Henri has more of a right for any grudge then Charlotte or her bitch daughter Margaret does!!!
I am going to be honest. I completely forgot about that part lol.
Margaret held no grudge against the French.
Margaret held no grudge against the French.
Francis
Francis
After two daughters Claude gave birth to Francis’s long-awaited male heir. His mother told the midwife to “tell the King that he is even more beautiful than himself.” Francis agreed saying that he was “a beautiful dauphin who is the most beautiful and strong child one could imagine and who will be the easiest to bring up.” As a reward for his birth oft neglected Claude was showered with presents and for a brief moment that rarest of gifts, her husband’s affections. But she would always say the greatest gift by far was her son.
Francis was an ideal prince, close with all his siblings, and beloved by his father and mother. The young Dauphin proved equally charming to his stepmother Beatriz of Portugal, who loved to spoil him with sweets. His aunt Marguerite and Grandmother Louise also adored him, often taking steps to raise him themselves, which irritated Beatriz and broke poor Claude’s heart.
Beatriz’s death in childbirth deeply upset the young prince, as it did all of Francis’s children. Nevertheless, he behaved as a true monarch, comforting his younger siblings and doing his best to keep them in good cheer. With their father away, Francis and all the other children fell into the care of their aunt Marguerite, She recorded that the Prince seemed very mature for his age, asking questions about the war and affairs of state.
Alas France would be robbed of a potential great King when little Francis took ill in 1524. The little boy, after confessing his few sins and commending his soul to God, passed from this world at the age of just six. His death, coming on the heels of his father’s capture and the death of his stepmother Beatriz in childbirth was a devastating blow to the family. Marguerite wrote about him in her poems. Charlotte and Henri would remember their big brother until the day they died. Henri in particular would later confide to a confidant that his one goal throughout his entire reign was to be the kind of monarch young Francis would have been had he lived.
After two daughters Claude gave birth to Francis’s long-awaited male heir. His mother told the midwife to “tell the King that he is even more beautiful than himself.” Francis agreed saying that he was “a beautiful dauphin who is the most beautiful and strong child one could imagine and who will be the easiest to bring up.” As a reward for his birth oft neglected Claude was showered with presents and for a brief moment that rarest of gifts, her husband’s affections. But she would always say the greatest gift by far was her son.
Francis was an ideal prince, close with all his siblings, and beloved by his father and mother. The young Dauphin proved equally charming to his stepmother Beatriz of Portugal, who loved to spoil him with sweets. His aunt Marguerite and Grandmother Louise also adored him, often taking steps to raise him themselves, which irritated Beatriz and broke poor Claude’s heart.
Beatriz’s death in childbirth deeply upset the young prince, as it did all of Francis’s children. Nevertheless, he behaved as a true monarch, comforting his younger siblings and doing his best to keep them in good cheer. With their father away, Francis and all the other children fell into the care of their aunt Marguerite, She recorded that the Prince seemed very mature for his age, asking questions about the war and affairs of state.
Alas France would be robbed of a potential great King when little Francis took ill in 1524. The little boy, after confessing his few sins and commending his soul to God, passed from this world at the age of just six. His death, coming on the heels of his father’s capture and the death of his stepmother Beatriz in childbirth was a devastating blow to the family. Marguerite wrote about him in her poems. Charlotte and Henri would remember their big brother until the day they died. Henri in particular would later confide to a confidant that his one goal throughout his entire reign was to be the kind of monarch young Francis would have been had he lived.
Henri II part 1
New
Henri II
(part 1)
Henri, the future King of France was born prematurely, a tragedy that would cost the life of his mother, the long-suffering Queen Claude. For the few moments they spent together the Queen felt nothing but love for her young son, her heart aching at his distress even as her own life faded away.
His father by contrast was far more ambivalent. Despite losing two subsequent wives to childbirth, Henri was the only child he would ever hold responsible for the death of his mother. His sister Marguerite, who had a better insight into the King’s psyche than any of his wives, speculated that the King blamed Henri to displace his own guilt over both the way he had treated Claude, and his failure to save her life. Whatever the reasons the relationship between father and son would remain forever strained.
Though Henri would retain deep-seated guilt for Claude’s death, leading to a secretive melancholy temper that would last all his life, the first mother he would actually remember was his stepmother Queen Beatriz. In contrast to her husband the young Queen never judged or abused her stepson. Instead, she did her best to bring this quiet sensitive child out of his shell. The results were mixed but Henri would always appreciate her efforts and remember her fondly, if only vaguely.
His aunt Marguerite and grandmother Louise of Savoy likewise did not hold a grudge, although they favored his older siblings, Francis and Charlotte.
His two older siblings were especially protective of Henri, as if at even a young age they sensed the low regard their father held him. He in turn worshiped the ground both of them walked on, which makes the death of Francis and his estrangement from Charlotte all the more tragic.
From the age of four onward little Henri, and all of his siblings suffered a series of blows. First, he lost yet another mother to childbirth. Then his father was captured at Pavia and then his big brother Francis perished from sickness, leaving sad introverted little Henri as heir to the French crown.
In order to secure his own freedom Francis offered young Henri to Charles V as a hostage. Henri received a farewell kiss from one of his mother’s former ladies, Diane de Poitiers. He would cherish that kiss for the rest of his life.
When the King proceeded to break his word and resume the war Charles made the conditions of Henri’s imprisonment much harsher. However, he was prevented from doing the worst by the intervention of his sister, Henri’s new stepmother, Elanor of Austria. She did her best to love and care for Henri but the young Prince was disinterested, thinking her just another captor. One night, attempting to get him to open up, she would mention her own feelings of sadness around leaving her only daughter, Maria, in Portugal. Henri did not think much of it then but looking forward he felt that was the point where the threads of destiny began to bind him to her.
In 1529 Louise of Savoy and Margaret of Austria signed the Peace of Cambrais, ending the war and permitting Henri to return home, to his siblings, his disapproving father, and yet another stepmother. At ten years old he was forever marked by this time in captivity.
His female relations, including his sister Charlotte, his aunt Marguerite, his grandmother Louise of Savoy, and his stepmother Renee formed a protective circle around the traumatized young prince, seeking to comfort him and mold him into the heir France needed. While Henri was grateful for their help, he would not lose his introverted nature.
He was close to Charlotte who, at thirteen, was beautiful, popular, sociable, beloved by her father and the court, everything Henri was not. This only strengthened his worship of her. “The Prince follows his sister around like a puppy”, complained the King.
By contrast, the young Prince remained distant from his stepmother Renee. She was too young to be his stepmother, and for whatever reason he did not see her as an older sister the way his sister Charlotte did. Instead, she was what she always was to him, his aunt, a loved, but distant presence in the family.
Relations with his father were as distant as ever made worse by Francis’s failed attempts to mold Henri into the kind of Dauphin he wanted, and his blatant favoritism of Beatriz’s son Charles. The spoiled young princling in turn taunted his older brother, beginning a rivalry that would last as long as they both lived.
The parental figure he latched onto was not blood-related at all. Diane de Poitiers, a friend of both his mother and stepmother provided the maternal figure Henri had been searching for all his life. He became attached and devoted to her, often presenting her presents of flowers. She in turn did her best to care for Henri and laughed off his gifts as childish infatuation. However, Henri viewed their relationship as genuine romance and dreamed of the day when he would be old enough to marry her, planning to defy his father’s plans to make a marriage of state for him.
Though he knew it was coming for some time, Charlotte’s departure for Milan devastated young Henri and drove him closer to Diane, who was now his only remaining friend.
The death of his stepmother Renee also greatly saddened him. Henri felt great guilt for not having treated her better when he had the chance.
His grief-stricken father fell further and further into debauchery, leaving Henri to take up more and more responsibilities at court.
Chief, and most disliked amongst these was marrying the daughter of his former stepmother, and niece of his jailor, Maria of Viesu, the Princess of Portugal.
According to rumors he proclaimed his love for Diane just prior to the wedding and begged her to marry him. But she demurred, believing that the Duaphin had a duty to France to make an advantageous marriage.
At age just thirteen Maria was a budding beauty, with clear blue eyes and pale complexion. She was also charming, highly intelligent, and highly cultured, counting famous humanists among her tutors.
Despite this the young prince showed minimal interest in his bride. His love was reserved for Dianne. When the ceremony was done and the marriage consummated Henri left poor Maria alone in the bed while he went off to brood. By her own admission, in a letter to her mother, the young princess cried herself to sleep that night, despite keeping a stoic and courteous demenor in public.
Though the young Prince cared little for his bride, the King by contrast openly lusted after the girl, jokingly telling young Henri that if he did not appreciate Maria he was more than happy to take her off his hands. One contemporary claimed that Henri’s response was to state that his father was welcome to have Maria so long as he was allowed to marry Diane de Poitiers.
Alas, the exact opposite scenario came to pass. At his low point King Francis found his salvation in the beautiful Diane and decided to marry her. Diane for her part was much more attracted to the father than the son, whom she cared for, but as a mother would care for a child.
Henri never fully forgave his father or Diane for this “betrayal.” Now the Dauphin was truly alone. He would correspond frequently with his sister Charlotte, the Duchess of Milan. In one of her letters, she would suggest that Henri try and spend more time with his wife, as she was bound by oath to love and obey him. At the time Henri brushed the suggestion off, but it would prove precinct.
Diane’s pregnancy by the King further deepened Henri’s depression. Though the young Prince despised the Queen, she had not forgotten him. At her urging, Maria went to her husband to try and comfort him.
Gradually the two grew closer. Maria confessed her fears about being so far from home and family, and her worries about the King’s intentions towards her. Her opening up to him allowed Henri to open up about his lifelong loneliness, his grief over his brother, his longing for Diane, and his continued trauma from his time in Spain.
Slowly but surely Henri began to appreciate his wife’s positive qualities. Even if he could not love her as a husband, he could protect her as an older brother, ironic given his own distant relationship with his younger siblings. She in turn fell ever more in love with him. "I don't think it is possible to love a boy any more than I love my dear Henri", Maria would write to her mother.
Though the couple grew closer, no child resulted. This was of no concern at first, given the young age of the couple, but as the years went on and no child came the pressure intensified. Maria resorted to desperate measures to conceive. The couple were taunted about this by Charles of Auglame, who at one point suggested he take over the task of getting Maria with child. In response Portuguese Princess attempted to attack her brother in law, and had to be physically restrained. Henri was very happy to witness this and even Francis admired her spirit and loyalty to her husband. Charles for his part thought the whole thing rather funny.
Things grew even more desperate when Charles Duke of Auglame died in 1539, age of just eighteen. Henri barely bothered to pretend to mourn his hated younger brother. This furthered tensions with his father, who was devastated.
Once again it was Queen Diane who came to the rescue of the French Royal line. She was able to get a doctor to examine the couple’s sexual organs. What he found was lost to history but it seems to have worked, for in 1540 Maria at long last found herself pregnant.
To celebrate the King called a great hunt. It was on this hunt that Queen Diane fell from her horse, which resulted in her breaking her neck, killing her instantly. The King, Henri, and Maria were all grieved. Only now did Henri realize that he still cared for Diane. Maria, who was also grief-stricken at the loss of a mentor and friend, did her best to comfort her husband. When their child was born, a daughter, she was named Diane, to the delight of King Francis.
After 1540 the couple would have no trouble conceiving. Indeed over the course of her marriage, Maria would find herself in a near-constant state of pregnancy, which would have a negative effect on her health. In total Maria of Portugal would bear her husband sixteen children, with twelve surviving to adulthood. Henri proved to be a distant and aloof father, too occupied with the affairs of state and his own dark moods to spend time playing with small children. Maria for her part was frequently occupied with intellectual endeavors, but always made time for her children, especially in order to supervise their educations. Even her daughters would prove to be more educated than the sons of many powerful noblemen. In turn, while the children would always respect their father, they adored their mother.
In 1541 they welcomed a son and heir, named Francis at the King’s instance. With King Francis plunging further into debauchery, it fell to the Dauphin and his wife to keep up appearances at court.
Maria in particular excelled in her position as Francis’s new matriarch, presiding over an educated and cultured court. Between a debauched and grieving King and a dower Dauphin, she was the “bright sun in the heart of France”, as Bartome put it.
Meanwhile, Henri began to gather his own faction of advisors and confidants. In particular, the Dauphin and his wife feuded with the King’s powerful mistress Anne d’Pisseleu d’Heilly. They resented her over-mighty attitude and the corrupt favorites she elevated at court.
Henri also began to develop his own ideas on foreign policy. In particular, he believed his father was being too passive. He was furious at Charllote’s marriage to Charles V, his one-time jailor. When his father came around to the marriage, seeing it as a way to keep the peace, and maybe even split off Burgundy should Charllote succeed in bearing her new husband a son, Henri saw only betrayal and humiliation.
His father’s failure to prevent Henri VIII from increasing his influence in Scotland at France’s expense, following the death of James V only added to Henri’s sense of estrangement.
Matters came to a head in 1544 when Francis, suspecting that Henri and Maria were plotting with the disgraced constable Montmorency, exiled the couple from court. They retreated to a private Chateau and spent the year living a quiet life with their children, before being reconciled with the King in 1545. Both Henri and Maria blamed Anne d’Pisseleu d’Heilly for their exile and tensions between the two camps only increased.
(part 1)
Henri, the future King of France was born prematurely, a tragedy that would cost the life of his mother, the long-suffering Queen Claude. For the few moments they spent together the Queen felt nothing but love for her young son, her heart aching at his distress even as her own life faded away.
His father by contrast was far more ambivalent. Despite losing two subsequent wives to childbirth, Henri was the only child he would ever hold responsible for the death of his mother. His sister Marguerite, who had a better insight into the King’s psyche than any of his wives, speculated that the King blamed Henri to displace his own guilt over both the way he had treated Claude, and his failure to save her life. Whatever the reasons the relationship between father and son would remain forever strained.
Though Henri would retain deep-seated guilt for Claude’s death, leading to a secretive melancholy temper that would last all his life, the first mother he would actually remember was his stepmother Queen Beatriz. In contrast to her husband the young Queen never judged or abused her stepson. Instead, she did her best to bring this quiet sensitive child out of his shell. The results were mixed but Henri would always appreciate her efforts and remember her fondly, if only vaguely.
His aunt Marguerite and grandmother Louise of Savoy likewise did not hold a grudge, although they favored his older siblings, Francis and Charlotte.
His two older siblings were especially protective of Henri, as if at even a young age they sensed the low regard their father held him. He in turn worshiped the ground both of them walked on, which makes the death of Francis and his estrangement from Charlotte all the more tragic.
From the age of four onward little Henri, and all of his siblings suffered a series of blows. First, he lost yet another mother to childbirth. Then his father was captured at Pavia and then his big brother Francis perished from sickness, leaving sad introverted little Henri as heir to the French crown.
In order to secure his own freedom Francis offered young Henri to Charles V as a hostage. Henri received a farewell kiss from one of his mother’s former ladies, Diane de Poitiers. He would cherish that kiss for the rest of his life.
When the King proceeded to break his word and resume the war Charles made the conditions of Henri’s imprisonment much harsher. However, he was prevented from doing the worst by the intervention of his sister, Henri’s new stepmother, Elanor of Austria. She did her best to love and care for Henri but the young Prince was disinterested, thinking her just another captor. One night, attempting to get him to open up, she would mention her own feelings of sadness around leaving her only daughter, Maria, in Portugal. Henri did not think much of it then but looking forward he felt that was the point where the threads of destiny began to bind him to her.
In 1529 Louise of Savoy and Margaret of Austria signed the Peace of Cambrais, ending the war and permitting Henri to return home, to his siblings, his disapproving father, and yet another stepmother. At ten years old he was forever marked by this time in captivity.
His female relations, including his sister Charlotte, his aunt Marguerite, his grandmother Louise of Savoy, and his stepmother Renee formed a protective circle around the traumatized young prince, seeking to comfort him and mold him into the heir France needed. While Henri was grateful for their help, he would not lose his introverted nature.
He was close to Charlotte who, at thirteen, was beautiful, popular, sociable, beloved by her father and the court, everything Henri was not. This only strengthened his worship of her. “The Prince follows his sister around like a puppy”, complained the King.
By contrast, the young Prince remained distant from his stepmother Renee. She was too young to be his stepmother, and for whatever reason he did not see her as an older sister the way his sister Charlotte did. Instead, she was what she always was to him, his aunt, a loved, but distant presence in the family.
Relations with his father were as distant as ever made worse by Francis’s failed attempts to mold Henri into the kind of Dauphin he wanted, and his blatant favoritism of Beatriz’s son Charles. The spoiled young princling in turn taunted his older brother, beginning a rivalry that would last as long as they both lived.
The parental figure he latched onto was not blood-related at all. Diane de Poitiers, a friend of both his mother and stepmother provided the maternal figure Henri had been searching for all his life. He became attached and devoted to her, often presenting her presents of flowers. She in turn did her best to care for Henri and laughed off his gifts as childish infatuation. However, Henri viewed their relationship as genuine romance and dreamed of the day when he would be old enough to marry her, planning to defy his father’s plans to make a marriage of state for him.
Though he knew it was coming for some time, Charlotte’s departure for Milan devastated young Henri and drove him closer to Diane, who was now his only remaining friend.
The death of his stepmother Renee also greatly saddened him. Henri felt great guilt for not having treated her better when he had the chance.
His grief-stricken father fell further and further into debauchery, leaving Henri to take up more and more responsibilities at court.
Chief, and most disliked amongst these was marrying the daughter of his former stepmother, and niece of his jailor, Maria of Viesu, the Princess of Portugal.
According to rumors he proclaimed his love for Diane just prior to the wedding and begged her to marry him. But she demurred, believing that the Duaphin had a duty to France to make an advantageous marriage.
At age just thirteen Maria was a budding beauty, with clear blue eyes and pale complexion. She was also charming, highly intelligent, and highly cultured, counting famous humanists among her tutors.
Despite this the young prince showed minimal interest in his bride. His love was reserved for Dianne. When the ceremony was done and the marriage consummated Henri left poor Maria alone in the bed while he went off to brood. By her own admission, in a letter to her mother, the young princess cried herself to sleep that night, despite keeping a stoic and courteous demenor in public.
Though the young Prince cared little for his bride, the King by contrast openly lusted after the girl, jokingly telling young Henri that if he did not appreciate Maria he was more than happy to take her off his hands. One contemporary claimed that Henri’s response was to state that his father was welcome to have Maria so long as he was allowed to marry Diane de Poitiers.
Alas, the exact opposite scenario came to pass. At his low point King Francis found his salvation in the beautiful Diane and decided to marry her. Diane for her part was much more attracted to the father than the son, whom she cared for, but as a mother would care for a child.
Henri never fully forgave his father or Diane for this “betrayal.” Now the Dauphin was truly alone. He would correspond frequently with his sister Charlotte, the Duchess of Milan. In one of her letters, she would suggest that Henri try and spend more time with his wife, as she was bound by oath to love and obey him. At the time Henri brushed the suggestion off, but it would prove precinct.
Diane’s pregnancy by the King further deepened Henri’s depression. Though the young Prince despised the Queen, she had not forgotten him. At her urging, Maria went to her husband to try and comfort him.
Gradually the two grew closer. Maria confessed her fears about being so far from home and family, and her worries about the King’s intentions towards her. Her opening up to him allowed Henri to open up about his lifelong loneliness, his grief over his brother, his longing for Diane, and his continued trauma from his time in Spain.
Slowly but surely Henri began to appreciate his wife’s positive qualities. Even if he could not love her as a husband, he could protect her as an older brother, ironic given his own distant relationship with his younger siblings. She in turn fell ever more in love with him. "I don't think it is possible to love a boy any more than I love my dear Henri", Maria would write to her mother.
Though the couple grew closer, no child resulted. This was of no concern at first, given the young age of the couple, but as the years went on and no child came the pressure intensified. Maria resorted to desperate measures to conceive. The couple were taunted about this by Charles of Auglame, who at one point suggested he take over the task of getting Maria with child. In response Portuguese Princess attempted to attack her brother in law, and had to be physically restrained. Henri was very happy to witness this and even Francis admired her spirit and loyalty to her husband. Charles for his part thought the whole thing rather funny.
Things grew even more desperate when Charles Duke of Auglame died in 1539, age of just eighteen. Henri barely bothered to pretend to mourn his hated younger brother. This furthered tensions with his father, who was devastated.
Once again it was Queen Diane who came to the rescue of the French Royal line. She was able to get a doctor to examine the couple’s sexual organs. What he found was lost to history but it seems to have worked, for in 1540 Maria at long last found herself pregnant.
To celebrate the King called a great hunt. It was on this hunt that Queen Diane fell from her horse, which resulted in her breaking her neck, killing her instantly. The King, Henri, and Maria were all grieved. Only now did Henri realize that he still cared for Diane. Maria, who was also grief-stricken at the loss of a mentor and friend, did her best to comfort her husband. When their child was born, a daughter, she was named Diane, to the delight of King Francis.
After 1540 the couple would have no trouble conceiving. Indeed over the course of her marriage, Maria would find herself in a near-constant state of pregnancy, which would have a negative effect on her health. In total Maria of Portugal would bear her husband sixteen children, with twelve surviving to adulthood. Henri proved to be a distant and aloof father, too occupied with the affairs of state and his own dark moods to spend time playing with small children. Maria for her part was frequently occupied with intellectual endeavors, but always made time for her children, especially in order to supervise their educations. Even her daughters would prove to be more educated than the sons of many powerful noblemen. In turn, while the children would always respect their father, they adored their mother.
In 1541 they welcomed a son and heir, named Francis at the King’s instance. With King Francis plunging further into debauchery, it fell to the Dauphin and his wife to keep up appearances at court.
Maria in particular excelled in her position as Francis’s new matriarch, presiding over an educated and cultured court. Between a debauched and grieving King and a dower Dauphin, she was the “bright sun in the heart of France”, as Bartome put it.
Meanwhile, Henri began to gather his own faction of advisors and confidants. In particular, the Dauphin and his wife feuded with the King’s powerful mistress Anne d’Pisseleu d’Heilly. They resented her over-mighty attitude and the corrupt favorites she elevated at court.
Henri also began to develop his own ideas on foreign policy. In particular, he believed his father was being too passive. He was furious at Charllote’s marriage to Charles V, his one-time jailor. When his father came around to the marriage, seeing it as a way to keep the peace, and maybe even split off Burgundy should Charllote succeed in bearing her new husband a son, Henri saw only betrayal and humiliation.
His father’s failure to prevent Henri VIII from increasing his influence in Scotland at France’s expense, following the death of James V only added to Henri’s sense of estrangement.
Matters came to a head in 1544 when Francis, suspecting that Henri and Maria were plotting with the disgraced constable Montmorency, exiled the couple from court. They retreated to a private Chateau and spent the year living a quiet life with their children, before being reconciled with the King in 1545. Both Henri and Maria blamed Anne d’Pisseleu d’Heilly for their exile and tensions between the two camps only increased.
I totally agree with Henri's anger with Charllote, she married the man who kept in a cell with moldy walls!!
I think that it's an great injustice that Charles V didn't end losing his mind when he would be forced to flee from French troops. Karma tends to avoid the odious Charles in most ALTs.................................................
I think that it's an great injustice that Charles V didn't end losing his mind when he would be forced to flee from French troops. Karma tends to avoid the odious Charles in most ALTs.................................................
That was ALL Francis’ fault who cared NOTHING for the situation in which he was putting his heir BETRAYING the pacts.
Charles is still the guy who took out his anger on the kid!
Charles wad left without any other choice. Everyone knew perfectly who Henry would have to pay the price of his father’s actions. Henry was the guarancy of his father’s good behavior so if Francis violated the agreements then Henry MUST PAY the price of HIS FATHER‘s action. If Francis had respected the agreements and paid HIS OWN RANSOM then Henry would had a comfortable stay in Spain.
I agree. That said, I think it was kind of dumb. He had the perfect opportunity to make the future King of France feel really indebted to you own a personal level but wasted it, earning only his hate.
Charles had no other choice than being harsh with Francis’ son(s). Doing differently would mean losing his only mean of pressure over Francis encouraging him to doing worse.
Threatening to keep Henry in Spain for his entire life should be enough of a threat. If Spain ain’t returning Henry when Francis dies, France is screwed.
No, because Francis had already accepted that eventuality as Henry could not return in France before his father’s fulfilled ALL the conditions of the agreement for which Henry was left as guaranty. The point is who OTL Francis cared NOTHING for the fate of his son(s) but the boy(s) choose to blame Charles for Francis‘ comportment
Then any pressure on Francis via threatening the person of Henry is pointless. Hold Henry as hostage perpetually, watch France explodes when Francis dies.Depending on who takes power after France collapses into civil war, threaten to release Henry on the traitors or negotiate for his release in return for fulfilling expanded conditions if loyalists took power. Do what the Jin Dynasty did to the Song Dynasty in China after capturing the two Song emperors.The usurper of the Chinese throne was ultimately forced to recognise massive territorial concession, pay tribute, acknowledge vassalage and kill their most effective general when they were WINNING in return for the Jin emperor NOT releasing his brother back to Song territorial and cause trouble.
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That could not work in Europe. And Charles had no interest in keeping permanently the boys as hostages.
And why wouldn’t it work in Europe? Who is gonna take power if Francis suddenly dies? There will be a massive anarchy. The English did something similar for instance when they took the Duke of Rothesay hostage, who then became King while he was under English captivity. The English were then able to achieve multiple goals using the person of the Scottish king, like legally executing Scots captured during the HYW for fighting against the ‘king’.
At any rate, the English didn’t treat James I poorly when the Scots refused to pay his ransom. In fact, they treated him quite well. The English even managed to inject their influence into Scottish politics via James I by having him marry a member of the English royal family. When James returned, he was too busy fighting the regents most of the time.That should have been the model of how Charles dealt with Henry.
Also think of the mayhem John was able to cause when Richard the Lionheart was held in captivity.He and Philip tried to offer an alternative bribe to keep Richard locked up while they continued to cause trouble in Angevin domains.
If you can get the French to fight themselves, you effectively removed them as a threat for a period of time.
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Glad to see this lively debate. I can understand Charles's motives for treating Francis's children harshly, and also understand why Henri hated him after that. As I said, I literally forgot about Henri when thinking up the Charles-Charllote ship. But I am glad I did. It makes the whole thing very messy and interesting.